Love Your Neighbor (yep, even those different than you)

Rather than argue her perspective with quotes from scripture, Michelle urges people to listen deeply to each other and maintain a humble and open mind when discussing homosexuality. While certainty remains out of reach, mutual love and respect must inform the search for it. This is the final entry in our July series on homosexuality. -Editor.

I am sure I’m not alone when I say that I’m still trying to balance my view on homosexuality between its modern cultural context and the authority I give the teachings of the New Church. We are probably the majority out there— wishy-washy about what we believe, or too hesitant to say what we actually believe in fear of offending someone. But the truth is, offense has happened. Feelings have been hurt. People have died over this issue. No matter what conclusion people come to, there is discomfort out there around homosexuality and it’s not going anywhere right now.

Here’s the way I see it: it is fairly evident that homosexuality is not completely orderly or within the parameters of “conjugial love”— procreation the obvious example. The argument has been spelled out many times before, a man is fully a man to the last detail, woman is the same way, and together they complement each other in a heavenly model of perfection. There is an ideal out there that we are pressured to achieve, the white-picket-fence-golden-retriever-living-room-with-white-carpets ideal. A man and a woman married together, preferably with children, biological if possible.

But then, there are plenty of less-than-ideal relationship or family situations out there: single, divorced, widowed, adoption, single parents, other family members stepping in for the absent parents, etc. Some of these may come about via poor choices, and some from unforeseen circumstances. Just because they are not the prescribed “right way to do things” doesn’t necessarily make them evil or wrong—they are different. Could it be homosexuality falls under this category?

As New Church individuals, we pride ourselves on the acceptance of variety; there are many different ways to reach the LORD and heaven. We usually see this as different religions. Sexual orientation is another avenue of that. As it stands now, according to my own readings from Scripture and meditation and listening to arguments from both sides, I believe that marriage is more closely aligned with conjugial love when it is between a man and a woman, but a gay or lesbian relationship can still be a wonderful loving thing and politically I’d like to see more states allow these couples to be married. There, I’ve said it. That’s where I stand right now. I’m not going to the sociopolitical or Biblical verse-by-verse argument for my stance, those arguments are already written and debated out there, much more eloquently than I would be able to do.

What I would like to do is implore people to keep an open mind, and actually listen when people are offering their view on this matter. Don’t just sit there, waiting for the other person to finish talking so you can dazzle them with your more-rational thoughts. Don’t try to convert the other person to your side. Actually listen, hear what they’re saying, try to understand where they’re coming from. I’ve said that the above is what I personally believe “right now” because I’m not 100% sure of that. I’m still willing to listen to other sides and take their points into consideration.

What I’d also like to challenge you to do is pray, and reflect on Scripture for yourself. As it stands in this natural, physical world, I don’t think we can directly, 100% know for sure about homosexuality. The LORD has provided the Three-Fold Word for us to explore and challenge ourselves, and let ourselves be open to hear what He has to tell us individually. Reading secular articles about the science of brain chemistry or other people’s understanding of society or the Word can be great and informative, but going to the source directly and humbly is just as important.

Above all, I would ask everyone to treat others with understanding, respect, and love. What saddens me most is when a gay or lesbian individual is shunned from their society and especially his/her church. This unfortunately happens in many churches mostly because these individuals are seen as “disruptive” to the worship sphere of the established congregation. If you did believe that homosexuality was wrong, I would think you would want that person to come to church all the more? These people are met with a lot of hurt and confusion. In these harsh states, people need the LORD all the more. Why would you want to interfere with that? We are all God’s children, and all deserve love and respect from each other.

Jesus replied, “You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: Love your neighbor as yourself. The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

Michelle Chapin

Michelle works with a team that creates Bible study programs, helping people approach the Word for themselves, individually and in community, to hear what the Lord has to say. She also lives with and mentors high school girls, a job both extremely rewarding and very loud most of the time.

Comments

[Brian]

I recommend this short piece by by George Gantz Difficulty of Judging What is True.

It is challenging communicating with people.

It is challenging pursuing a clear understanding of truth.

I've found the past discussions valuable to me. I appreciate the few testimonial style posts, the philosophical argument styles, the appeals to scriptural references, the occasional humor, and even the heightened emotional and repetitive appeals. All of this has helped improve my thinking and my understanding of the people, feelings and ways of responding to issues around homosexuality. Its tough, but I am grateful to the participants for giving me windows into new perspectives.

I am sorry that I don't currently have time to write an article about some of the many, many cool things taught in the HD about the challenges, and possibilities of humans working to share ideas and understand the Divine. Needless to say, much humility is needed.

Love to you all, and respect for the work you have each been putting in.

There will be some pleasant easier topics in the coming weeks on NCP; and there will also be some more challenging pieces to grapple with in the future.

Brian

[Frank Maiorano]

Someone is posting reponses using my name. The posts after my response to Karen are NOT my responses! Notice that my responses are always CIVIL even when I disagree. Thank you.

[Frank Maiorano]

Dylan,

Someone is posting responses using my name. In this battle- with the hells viciously attacking conjugial love- both in individuals and in the Church- slander is a familiar tactic.

My earlier responses clearly showed that inter-racial marriage is within God's order, but the adultery of homosexuality is not.

1) Swedenborg tells us in the Writings that a conjugial pair, which is one man and one woman- can be born in different parts of the world, and from different races.

2) "In the beginning God created male and female". This is the Divine design in which the Lord flows into. Homosexuality and Lesbianism are old sins that are currently being re-packaged and sold as a "New Paradigm". This and other strategies by the DRAGON will be defeated by the "Michaels" of heaven and the New Church.
2)

[Frank Maiorano]

Dylan,

Why would you slander me with a vile article someone else wrote?

Inter-racial marriages between men and women are not evil. Swedenborg tells us that conjugial pairs may be born in different regions of the world. Please do not ascribe writings of others to myself.

[Leif Svenson]

People can use the Bible to prove anything - that homosexuality is bad, that homosexuality is good. In fact, homosexuality is an existential choice, Bible or not. The support of the homosexual agenda is an existential choice, Bible or not. The rejection of homosexual behavior as normal or commendable (homophobia or heterosexism) is another existential choice, Bible or not.

The following syllogism is a non sequitur:

(1) The Bible condemns homosexuality.
(2) Parts of the Bible have been found to be untrue or inapplicable (in the literal sense).
(3) Therefore, the Bible's teachings on homosexuality are untrue and inapplicable in the literal sense.

This is equivalent to the following syllogism:

(1) The Bible condemns acts of theft such as snatching the old lady's purse.
(2) Parts of the Bible have been found to be untrue or inapplicable (in the literal sense).
(3) Therefore, the Bible's teachings on stealing are untrue and inapplicable in the literal sense, and you may snatch the old lady's purse.

and:

This is equivalent to the following syllogism:

(1) The Bible condemns sex between a father and a daughter.
(2) Parts of the Bible have been found to be untrue or inapplicable (in the literal sense).
(3) Therefore, the Bible's teachings on sex between a father and a daughter are inapplicable in the literal sense, and such sex is the harmless choice of people who choose to love each other through their own, unique pro-love agenda.

Let us forget, for a moment, about what Scripture teaches about homosexuality. What do we want? What do we, in our depths want our churches and our governments to do, without reference to Scripture?

Scripture or no Scripture, I do not support the idea of homosexual marriages or the ordination of homosexual priests. I do not support the idea of strengthening homosexuals in their disease, just as I would not buy cigarettes for a smoker (but I would not avoid them or nag them or make them feel worthless either).

[Travis]

Hard to avoid the "lion's den" analogy, but hello, I'm a gay atheist. This discussion and the article that preceded it are fascinating, and, I hope you'll accept the observations of an interloper in the discussion. I mean no disrespect, and am not looking to offend or convert anyone, but I think having perspective from the other side of an issue can provide useful insight to all parties involved.

I understand the basic textual evidence cited in discussions like this, on both sides I think. Briefly summarized, the specific passages that deal with same-sex intimacy seem to condemn the practice, but this can cause some tension with the ideal of universal compassion found predominantly in the New Testament. While a perception of friction or even contradiction tends to arise out of this apparent schism, I wonder if it needs to. I agree that the conjugal pair of a man and a woman is presented as an ideal, it's an argument I can't win, but I get the sense that the New Testament has quite a bit to say about falling short of the ideal, and that the Christian path to take is to individually reach toward that ideal without insisting on it in others. I may deny the divinity of a historical Jesus, but as a philosopher, he remains perhaps one of the wisest people to walk the planet.

Fundamentally, though, I perceive your opinions of me as a reflection on you. In a way, it tells me what your spirituality is to you. For some, I see, it is a set of rules by which to live. It is an anchor of morality that grounds actions in something solid, and while that position is stable, it is also static, reactionary, xenophobic and ugly when experienced vicariously. While I am sure those individuals have a great deal to say in response, I'm afraid I learned long ago that such discussions tend to be fruitless and have little interest in having yet another person attempt to convince me I need them to save me. I appreciate the effort, but have no interest in yet another iteration of the same arguments.

What I think the article got at, and many of the comments spoke to is what, from my perspective, highlights the most admirable capacity of Christianity. Rather than accepting literal translations and rejecting outright any apparent contradiction between text and experience, those Christians I respect, admire, even try to emulate, are those that allow their faith to be tested. Repeatedly, consistently, methodically, they undertake the effort to find God in even the darkest places. Discussions like this, on my end anyway, are infinitely more interesting.

As an example, a Lutheran friend of mine suggested a way to read Leviticus that I'd never even considered. A man lying with another man as though he were a woman is out. Got it. But what if a man were to lie with another man as another man. Perhaps the abomination lies not in the mere act of same-sex intimacy, but with a confusion between the roles of men and women. Given how clearly defined gender roles tend to be in the Old Testament, it is reasonable to suppose that a subversion of those gender roles is more threatening than anything me and my boyfriend might get into. The notable absence of condemnation of explicitly lesbian relationships is thought-provoking as well.

All said, as far as can tell, from the wasteland of atheism I inhabit, the wisdom of Jesus revolves around compassion. All the data I've seen suggests that he was pretty clear on that point. He tended to make a habit of seeking out the most miserable wretches society had to offer, his compassion was, ideally, universal. So to the extent that I might pose a question to wrestle with, I ask only where your faith lies. Are you committed to the rules, or the values. Does your compassion extend wide enough to embrace everyone or are there limits to that compassion? Are there lines you just won't cross, people so low and so least among you that they fall below even the compassion of Jesus? And am I one of those people?

Anyway, thanks for indulging me, fantastic discussion